EV Charging point fitted — Bulb Community

EV Charging point fitted

Good Afternoon All,

The man from Chargemaster was at our property yesterday to fit our EV charging point as per the two pictures below. Now all we have to do is wait for those awfully nice people on the Renault production line to build our car.............





I don't think this is going to do anything to reduce our electricity bills............

Regards

Richard

Comments

  • I wonder how the grid will cope if loads of people start switching to elec cars.
  • edited January 14
    @linesrg, oooh exciting!

    The new Renault (with a rolled R of course) Zoe I presume?
  • @mowcius - Yes a Zoe, possibly due at the end of next month.

    @scudo - I think the government are keeping their fingers crossed on this issue. You would think that charging EV's on Economy 7/ 10 tariffs would be the way most owners would go. The roll out of Smart meters and ToU tariffs should encourage the nation to charge 'sensibly'. I don't know how quickly a 'significant' percentage of people will make the change to EV's, I suspect the uptake will be 'managed' as will the capacity for charging them.
  • I think the grid is going to be very happy using the spare capacity overnight.

    I am the other way round to you, Richard, as I have my Zoe R90 but no chargepoint yet!

    The day we placed our order (early December) the dealer rang to say that a customer had just cancelled their very similar order and would we like it instead. Yes please. One month wait, not 5/6. So we haven't got a chargepoint.
  • Ah, grid capacity. That always come up when it comes to EVs.

    It's all FUD really, we'll be fine. Battery storage projects are being built, albeit the ones being built right now are pretty paltry because for some reason the energy providers insist on using these paltry installs of 10MW instead of going to someone like Tesla who have no issue installing 100MW in Oz.
  • @BenWoodford - I don't know about FUD but it wasn't clear that storage projects were being given enough priority until very recently. I don't want to see coal being burnt during the hours of darkness just to facilitate my car being charged.
  • edited March 15
    With a smart electricity network it can be possible in the future to only charge electric cars during times of low demand.

    It could even get to a case where in an emergency the government can 'call on' the electricity to be pulled back into the grid. I doubt that will happen but there is a lot of energy stored in a car. Driving an EV daily will use more energy than a house.


    Also consider this for 'increasing your electricity bill' the cost will be more than offset by the reduction in fuel bill. Average cost to charge an electric car at home is like £7, if that does a week of driving, its a £13 saving on the average £20 a week for a decent daily commute to work.
  • @FromTheValleys

    It will be interesting to see how V2G develops. The Renault Zoe's are not currently compatible and neither are Tesla's. I must admit I'd like to see exactly how V2G would work. I'd hate to think I'd go out in the morning thinking I had 100% charge in my car batteries to find out that the National Grid had utilised say 30% of it and I had to curtail my travel plans to fit.

    Regards

    Richard
  • linesrg said:

    @FromTheValleys

    It will be interesting to see how V2G develops. The Renault Zoe's are not currently compatible and neither are Tesla's. I must admit I'd like to see exactly how V2G would work. I'd hate to think I'd go out in the morning thinking I had 100% charge in my car batteries to find out that the National Grid had utilised say 30% of it and I had to curtail my travel plans to fit.

    Regards

    Richard

    My vague understanding is that you could set the parameter of minimum charge left in your vehicle. You only need a few thousand vehicles to supply 10 kwh as a fast frequency response to balance the grid (like the Tesla battery in OZ). But if you always want 100% at the start of the day, as opposed to say 80/ 90 then maybe V2G won't work for you. Of course, after the grid has utilised your car, it may be able to top it back up by the time you need it anyway.
  • At my age I doubt I will ever have an electric car, however one thing does intrigue me is how the motorway service stations will cope, as it stands we have thousands of commuters filling up with fuel due to long journeys. I did this myself previously leaving home on a full tank but having to top up en route or for the return journey. Topping up with fuel took a few minutes and there were still queues at the pumps. How will they cope with needing a 30 minute charge (guesstimate) and requiring maybe hundreds of charge points to cope with it and leaving your car connected with a queue of `charge rage` customers waiting for their turn.
  • @scudo - As I understand it the likes of motorway service stations will need to install large battery/ energy stores which will be charged as economically as possible and EV's will be charged from these 'energy stores'.

    Regards

    Richard
  • That part I understand linesrg but if you take an M25 service station that expects 10,000 vehicles a day and say half need a charge for their EV that could be over 300 per hour (16 hour day) wanting charged, are they going to have 300 charging points, maybe not as much as that but still going to be a lot of charging points or long queues. The busy periods of the day could be pandemonium.
    It is the logistics of it I cannot grasp.
  • @scudo - Yes I agree there will be a need for some substantial 'infrastructure'.

    Recently they extended the car park at Inverurie rail station. I did contact ScotRail and asked them if they had given thought to the provision of EV charging points. I was advised that provision of such charging points was something they intended addressing later this year. Simplistically you could observe it would have been cheaper to lay any cabling at the same time as the extension rather than have to go back and dig things up again.

    As four Commons committees recently advocated bringing the end of petrol/ diesel vehicles forward from 2040 (Clean Air Act) there is generally increasing pressure all around to 'get to grips' with EVs.

    My concern is how much profiteering will be involved with the provision of the infrastructure and how much a unit of EV charging electricity will cost us. Currently (no pun intended) our use will be influenced by aiming to only charge at home or use one of Aberdeen Council provided 'free' charge points although the latter won't last for ever.

    Regards

    Richard
  • My concern is how much profiteering will be involved with the provision of the infrastructure and how much a unit of EV charging electricity will cost us.


    I suspect it will be cheaper initially to tempt as many as possible to EV then Mr taxman will make his move, I would not be surprised if at the end of the day we will be paying similar amounts per mile for both liquid fuel and electric as there will be a large deficit in tax as people convert over.
  • Topping up with fuel took a few minutes and there were still queues at the pumps. How will they cope with needing a 30 minute charge (guesstimate) and requiring maybe hundreds of charge points to cope with it and leaving your car connected with a queue of `charge rage` customers waiting for their turn.
    Funnily enough, fuel pumps haven't always been this big or fast at delivering fuel. As fuel tanks in vehicles got bigger and cars became more popular, filling stations were upgraded to match.

    The same thing is happening right now with electric car chargers. 350kW chargers are currenty being installed in the UK which would (in theory) allow something like a zoe to fully charge in 7 minutes. Most top-ups would be as fast as the time you take to choose a sandwhich, buy a coffee or pop to the toilet.
    Fast chargers and the fast charging capabilities of cars will almost certainly improve as fast as required to keep up with demand and minimise potential wait times at service stations.

    Add to this the possibility of electrifying every single car parking space at motorway service stations, removing the need for a fuel station at all (allowing for even more charging spaces) and it suddenly doesn't seem like much of an issue.

    Inner city petrol stations also will also probably become far less used when the majority of people charge up at home (and at work), so if you really do need to visit one, I'd not expect much of a queue.
  • @mowcius - I read accounts of such as the 350kW chargers but do wonder whether these systems are viable in the long term. I don't pretend to understand lithium battery technology but it is widely understood that the optimal charging rate for lead acid battery technology is at the C20 rate i.e. 1/20th of the batteries capacity. What is the optimal rate for charging lithium ion technology. I read optimal charging levels are to charge cells to 3.92V (rather than 4.2V) to reduce 'stress'. Force charging a battery pack at 350kW in 7 minutes must create a shed load of unwanted heat which can only be damaging to the battery pack. Then there is the argument about operating the battery pack in the range 20 - 80% as 'optimal' as a lot of time/ energy is lost 'forcing' the last 20% into the battery (the same argument applies to lead acid).
    I'll certainly be aiming to charge at home on a 7kW charger.
    37 days to go until the vehicle arrives....... (not that I'm counting!!!!!!!!)
    Regards
    Richard
  • There is an enormous difference in the chemistries between lead acid and lithium batteries. The latter are happy charging at a c rate of 1 and more. You are right about the last 20%, though; cars take a lot longer for the final few percent in order to protect their cells.
  • BTW which Renault are you getting? I've got a Zoe Dynamique ZE40 R90.
  • @AndrewC - good question. I'm currently at the flat in town and the paperwork is at home. It is a Dynamique so I suspect the same model in a very boring (and cheap) white. The one down side of the vehicle is the fitting of roof bars. Ours will most likely have them fitted although Renault don't approve.
    Regards
    Richard
  • edited May 2
    Good Evening All,

    Finally the Zoe arrived with us last Friday. I used our house charger just the once to prove it works.

    The good news for Bulb is that at the moment I'll be sticking with them as I currently intend taking full benefit of the free charge points available in Scotland currently.

    Ignoring the costs of the PCP agreement and battery rental so far the Zoe is costing us £0.005 (yes that's a full halfpenny) per mile in fuel.

    I have twice tried using a 22kW charger but the car itself has only charged at around 11 - 12kW - will need to check on the EV Forums to see if this is normal.

    I will be keeping a full spreadsheet of the vehicle costs including insurance etc.. The intention will be to hand the car back after the three years so the costs are all known.

    At some point the zero road tax and free charging will all come to an end. It might come to an end all the quicker once people (not EV owners) start realising they're footing the bill.

    I wonder where the government will raise tax as petrol/ diesel sales decline?

    Regards

    Richard
  • linesrg said:

    At some point the zero road tax and free charging will all come to an end.

    Just a quick note that Road Tax hasn't existed since 1937.

    I look forward to seeing your breakdown of costs going forward.

    On EVs in general I suspect for a lot of people, the lack of maintenance costs will make quite a difference too. The majority of people I follow with EVs seem to have had almost zero cost in maintenance so far with just a few parts simply being replaced under warranty (Tesla drive units...).
  • Congrats on receiving your white R90 (like mine!).

    I've replied to your question re charging rate on the EV forum.
  • @mowcius - OK I'll refer to it correctly as Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) at all points in future!!!!! :/

    Regards

    Richard
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