Bulb and smart meters — Bulb Community

Bulb and smart meters

We recently launched our smart tariff test. This is a trial tariff for people with smart meters that can send readings to us every half hour.

Lots of you have asked questions about how and when you’ll be able to get a smart meter. It’s complicated, but we’ve answered the most common questions below. If you’ve not seen it yet, it’s also worth catching up with the backstory.

If you still have a burning question, join the discussion below and we’ll do our very best to answer.

When can I have a smart meter installed?
In short, most Bulb members will have the option to request and book in for a smart installation appointment at the start of 2019. We’ll be contacting everyone about smart meters throughout 2019 and 2020.

What’s happening in the meantime?
We want our members to have the best experience possible with their new smart meters. So we’re starting by testing SMETS2 meters with a portion of the Bulb team. We’re looking for a smooth installation experience regardless of the meter location: a low cupboard, a high wall, a flat or house with thick or thin walls. We’re looking for any recurring problems that we can fix before they reach you. And we want to make sure that we can communicate with the meters themselves in a reliable, secure way.

In December, we’ll be installing smart meters in a small selection of member homes. We’ll select members from our waiting list first, but we’ll filter for members in the locations with well-trained engineers.

So while it’s not an immediate rollout, and we know the wait is frustrating, rest assured that we’re working hard behind the scenes.

Can I be added to the smart trial list?
Yes. Just add your details to this quick form and we’ll be in touch when we start installing smart meters in your area.

Why has there been a delay?
Well documented, industry-wide problems have caused delays in both installation and testing.

In addition, there have been meter signal issues in some areas of the country. Suppliers are able to speak to smart meters through mobile networks. We found that mobile signal was too poor in some areas for smart meters to work. We’re working on this.

Will I get an In-Home-Display with my smart meter?
Yes, all new smart meters will come with an In-home Display (IHD). An IHD shows energy usage in terms of pounds and pence, in real time.

We think making energy use more visible will help people to change their energy habits for the better. It was interesting to see how this visibility coupled with our smart tariff worked for our small group of testers. Find out how they managed to save.

What brand of SMETS 2 meter will I get?
We’ll let you know as soon as we can. We’re not ready to announce the brand just yet, as we are still dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s.

We’ve carefully selected our partners to make sure that the meters are high quality and the In Home Displays (IHDs) are user-friendly.

I already have a smart meter, can you read it?
We’ve partnered with a company able to communicate with about one-third of SMETS1 (first generation) smart meters.

We’ll be contacting anyone who’s meter we can read, starting with members who have applied to join the smart tariff. If we can’t read your SMETS1 meter now, we should be able to read it in the future. There’s a lot of government-mandated work to make SMETS1 data more accessible to energy suppliers. Once second-generation smart meters are up and running, there will also be the option to upgrade.

If you’ve signed up to the smart tariff and have a SMETS1 meter, we’ll be able to check whether we can read it within a couple of days. But in the beta phase of the smart tariff roll out you may need to bear with us while we find out, as we have had a lot of applications to the tariff.

Can I join the smart tariff trial?
Yes! It’s quick and easy to sign up. These are some things you should know:

The smart tariff only applies to electricity because gas costs don’t vary throughout the day in the same way.

The smart tariff is not currently available for prepayment meters. We’re working hard to make smart meters available for our prepayment members but have been facing technical difficulties. No supplier has been able to set up a functioning SMETS2 pay-as-you-go system yet. We want to address these issues as soon as we can.

All other members can apply for the tariff. If you have a smart meter and we can read it every half hour, we will sign you up right away. If we can’t read your smart meter then we will have to work on a fix for this issue.

If you don’t have a smart meter, when you apply for the tariff we will add you to our smart meter waiting list. Once it has been installed, we can automatically move you over to the smart tariff.

Can I access my smart meter data?
We’re making a number of changes to your Bulb Account so that you can view all of your smart meter data. Initially, this will be via charts and insights. Shortly after, we want to make your data available to you (and only you) via a CSV download and an API.

If you’re interested in accessing your data via an API we’d love to hear how and discuss our API design with you. Please get join the discussion below or send an email to hello@bulb.co.uk.



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Comments

  • Do you know what make of smart meter (SMETS1) you'll be able to read?
    I'm stuck in a situation with my "Liberty Secure" Smart Meter that didn't go from "pre-pay to dumb" when I switched to Bulb recently.
    Due to (shall we say) "uncooperative" neighbours I can't be my meter replaced easily.
  • There is a table on the page below that lists model numbers of SMETS1 meters which it claims will be able to be adopted into the SMETS2 system. Don't know if this matches up with what Bulb have planned.
    https://smartme.co.uk/technical.html
  • Hey @Bill_C and @IKnowNothing - @Selina at Bulb will be updating the community what's happening with smart meters shortly. We'll be in contact with all our members that have smart meters we can speak to shortly.
  • @Eleanor at Bulb Thanks for the update.
    Luckily my meter flicked into Dumb mode a few hours ago so it's not an urgency now.
  • Thanks for letting us know @Bill_C
  • Hello Eleanor,
    I live in a brand new building that has been equiped with smart reader + remote wireless remote reader from British Gas.
    they seem to be the latest generation.
    Would they be compatible with Bulb? If yes i would be happy to be part on the Smart Meter Program.
    Many thanks
  • Hi @Vince. We'll be able to speak to ~1/3 of SMETS1. At this point, I don't know if we'll be able to read yours. If it isn't then we'll be able to fit you with a SMETS2. I've popped your name on the programme.
  • edited October 12
    @Eleanor at Bulb, can you (or anyone else) provide a bit more technical info on why only around 1/3 of SMETS1 meters will be able to be read by yourselves?

    @Vince, do you have any details on the exact meter? There's a very slim possibility that it could be an SMETS2 meter but it is unlikely.
  • @mowcius - I can!

    We use CGI as a third party company to read SMETS1 meters and they're able to read only around 1/3 of SMETS meters.

    The problem is they don't give us any information which meters they can read. In order to check if a particular meter is compatible, CGI has to enrol that meter and check if they can read it. Usually, it takes 1 to 2 days.

    We think we found a better way to check which meters are compatible, but we have to test it.
  • Hello Eléonore,
    How can I check the exact model I have? Serial number?
  • @Vince - yep. Please send us a picture at help@bulb.co.uk and one of our team with take a look for you :)
  • @Eleanor at Bulb, Is this not what is meant to be being fixed in the future or are you (/CGI) never going to be able to get info from those other 66%?
  • Hey everyone,
    I've just switched from BG and had a smart meter for about 6 months so guessing it's a newer one? any way to find out, also does this mean Bulb will be able to read them or do i still need to do manual readings :)
    Thanks
  • @mowcius - suppliers must do all that we can to read SMETS1 smart meters. We are trying to speak to as many SMETS1 as we can but we simply can't speak to them all.

    For the 66% that we can't read, we'll need to come and fit you with a new SMETS2 smart meter.

    @fellsteruk. Even if it's a new smart meter, it will be a SMETS1. This means that either we'll be able to communicate with it despite being the old technology or we'll need to fit a new SMETS 2 meter. You can read exactly what that means here.

    We'll let you know if and when we can talk to your meter but for now, we'll need you to give us your meter readings.

  • thanks makes sense now i've read that.
  • edited October 15

    @fellsteruk. Even if it's a new smart meter, it will be a SMETS1.

    That's not entirely correct.
    British Gas and OVO at least have installed some SMETS2 meters. People could be joining Bulb with one now.

  • mowcius said:

    @fellsteruk. Even if it's a new smart meter, it will be a SMETS1.

    That's not entirely correct.
    British Gas and OVO at least have installed some SMETS2 meters. People could be joining Bulb with one now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/15/smart-meter-revolution-at-risk-short-circuited
  • Ive not had my BG smart meter for long how do i check?
  • @fellsteruk This is something that we'll be checking for you. At the moment, we're having to check one by one. We'll be in contact with you when we know if we can speak to your meter. It is not so much about the age but the central information system your meter uses.
  • Ive not had my BG smart meter for long how do i check?


  • edited October 16
    Cool thanks I have an L&G E470 whoop whoop

    Will bulb be able to see my usage now then or are they still working on it
  • Cool thanks I have an L&G E470 whoop whoop

    Will bulb be able to see my usage now then or are they still working on it

    Apparently L&G E470 (without the four digit addition suffix) are Smet 1 .
  • Poop

    Perhaps not all gloom, check out: https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html which is where I got my information.
  • @Allanr, I hadn't seen that list before. Interesting.

    The Llandis+Gyr E470 seems to be the meter of choice but as although it's reprogrammable to support SMETS2, it appears that it only supports Zigbee SE1.1
    I can't find any conclusive information as to whether the newer suffix models are physically different in hardware or are just programmed differently.

    The EDMI ES-10A looks quite nice though, SE1.2 and optical communication (although the optical is probably not consumer accessible).
  • It seems crazy that Llandis+Gyr would name the SMETS1 and SMETS2 devices the same Model Number is they are two seperate physical devices and not just an Firmware Upgrade, but with this whole Smart Meter embarrassment, it wouldn't surprise me!

    I have a E470 and mine's definitely SMETS1 at the moment at least.
  • Hi @Eleanor at Bulb, if you are able to take over a SMETS1 meter, are you able to interact with the IHD as well? This would be useful especially with the Smart Meter Tariff you have because we've got three rates to keep track of!
  • @Eleanor at Bulb I got a notification saying you've replied mentioning me but I can't see it and when I click the link it loads a blank page?


  • How can I find out when I am likely to get a new Smart meter fitted
  • edited October 19
    @davemac, optimistically right at the end of this year/start of next year.

    As it seems that Bulb are legitimately starting trials now prior to the full rollout, I believe that most of when you might get a meter is going to be down to local engineer availability.
    I'd love to know if Bulb know which region/city (presumably) will be first though. London?
  • well if they don't hurry up and fit them ill be off somewhere that does.

    we have had smart meter for last 5 year or so and now not having it is a downgrade and kinda annoying not being able see usage ect when want to. come January if no meter ill be switching.
  • Chill out. If a smart meter is so important to you then move on don’t try to hold supplier to ransoms. It’s been explained time and time again why there is a delay and why bulb are waiting for V2 meters which makes sense everyone else has been installing version one all of which is a total waste and have to be replaced with V2 it’s a crying shame how much waste will be generated from V1 meters.

    I honestly don’t actually see the benefit of a smart meter other than smart tariffs I mean do people really not know how much electricity their appliances use?

    I have a smart meter but I don’t use the annoying little devices to see my usage as I say what’s the point

    Novelty that’s all.
  • Hi guys, I believe we're actually going to roll smart meters out across the whole uk, at a pretty even rate, once we get out of the preliminary trials. Local engineer availability will be a factor though, more in terms of how long it'll take once we start rolling them out in an area than when we start to roll them out, if that makes sense. Areas with fewer engineers available will take longer to work down the lists of people who'd like smart meters than other areas
  • Oh and @Chalky I believe that when (if) your smart meter can be remotely reconfigured into a form we can communicate with, you should get full functionality of the IHD back
  • 100% renewable electricity and value per kWh just isn’t enough for some people.
  • @David at Bulb , thanks David. Fingers crossed you can read it. It definitely helps me keep my Electricity usage in check, which has been creeping up since I joined Bulb!
  • To try and keep this thread as the 'font of all knowledge' regarding Bulb and Smart Meters, there's been the following update in https://community.bulb.co.uk/discussion/7252/smart-meter-update-all-you-need-to-know-about-bulb-and-smart-meters :

    We recently launched our smart tariff test. This is a trial tariff for people with smart meters that can send readings to us every half hour.

    Lots of you have asked questions about how and when you’ll be able to get a smart meter. It’s complicated, but we’ve answered the most common questions below. If you’ve not seen it yet, it’s also worth catching up with the backstory.

    If you still have a burning question, join the discussion below and we’ll do our very best to answer.

    When can I have a smart meter installed?
    In short, most Bulb members will have the option to request and book in for a smart installation appointment at the start of 2019. We’ll be contacting everyone about smart meters throughout 2019 and 2020.

    What’s happening in the meantime?
    We want our members to have the best experience possible with their new smart meters. So we’re starting by testing SMETS2 meters with a portion of the Bulb team. We’re looking for a smooth installation experience regardless of the meter location: a low cupboard, a high wall, a flat or house with thick or thin walls. We’re looking for any recurring problems that we can fix before they reach you. And we want to make sure that we can communicate with the meters themselves in a reliable, secure way.

    In December, we’ll be installing smart meters in a small selection of member homes. We’ll select members from our waiting list first, but we’ll filter for members in the locations with well-trained engineers.

    So while it’s not an immediate rollout, and we know the wait is frustrating, rest assured that we’re working hard behind the scenes.

    Can I be added to the smart trial list?
    Yes. Just add your details to this quick form and we’ll be in touch when we start installing smart meters in your area.

    Why has there been a delay?
    Well documented, industry-wide problems have caused delays in both installation and testing.

    In addition, there have been meter signal issues in some areas of the country. Suppliers are able to speak to smart meters through mobile networks. We found that mobile signal was too poor in some areas for smart meters to work. We’re working on this.

    Will I get an In-Home-Display with my smart meter?
    Yes, all new smart meters will come with an In-home Display (IHD). An IHD shows energy usage in terms of pounds and pence, in real time.

    We think making energy use more visible will help people to change their energy habits for the better. It was interesting to see how this visibility coupled with our smart tariff worked for our small group of testers. Find out how they managed to save.

    What brand of SMETS 2 meter will I get?
    We’ll let you know as soon as we can. We’re not ready to announce the brand just yet, as we are still dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s.

    We’ve carefully selected our partners to make sure that the meters are high quality and the In Home Displays (IHDs) are user-friendly.

    I already have a smart meter, can you read it?
    We’ve partnered with a company able to communicate with about one-third of SMETS1 (first generation) smart meters.

    We’ll be contacting anyone who’s meter we can read, starting with members who have applied to join the smart tariff. If we can’t read your SMETS1 meter now, we should be able to read it in the future. There’s a lot of government-mandated work to make SMETS1 data more accessible to energy suppliers. Once second-generation smart meters are up and running, there will also be the option to upgrade.

    If you’ve signed up to the smart tariff and have a SMETS1 meter, we’ll be able to check whether we can read it within a couple of days. But in the beta phase of the smart tariff roll out you may need to bear with us while we find out, as we have had a lot of applications to the tariff.

    Can I join the smart tariff trial?
    Yes! It’s quick and easy to sign up. These are some things you should know:

    The smart tariff only applies to electricity because gas costs don’t vary throughout the day in the same way.

    The smart tariff is not currently available for prepayment meters. We’re working hard to make smart meters available for our prepayment members but have been facing technical difficulties. No supplier has been able to set up a functioning SMETS2 pay-as-you-go system yet. We want to address these issues as soon as we can.

    All other members can apply for the tariff. If you have a smart meter and we can read it every half hour, we will sign you up right away. If we can’t read your smart meter then we will have to work on a fix for this issue.

    If you don’t have a smart meter, when you apply for the tariff we will add you to our smart meter waiting list. Once it has been installed, we can automatically move you over to the smart tariff.

    Can I access my smart meter data?
    We’re making a number of changes to your Bulb Account so that you can view all of your smart meter data. Initially, this will be via charts and insights. Shortly after, we want to make your data available to you (and only you) via a CSV download and an API.

    If you’re interested in accessing your data via an API we’d love to hear how and discuss our API design with you. Please get join the discussion below or send an email to hello@bulb.co.uk.

  • Dear Eleon
    I would love to get data through API.
    How can I help?
    Do you already provide swagger link?
  • edited November 2
    Vince said:

    Dear Eleon
    I would love to get data through API.
    How can I help?
    Do you already provide swagger link?

    I'm so confused.

    But I would also like a swagger link (whatever it is).
  • Hi @Vince and @mowcius,

    I'm one of the software engineers on the smart team at Bulb. We haven't started development on the public usage API yet, but we're really keen to hear what you're looking for from it.

    The initial version will most likely be a REST API which gives you access to your raw smart meter readings at monthly, daily and half-hourly intervals.

    Is there any other usage data you be interested in getting from an API?
  • edited November 2
    @Daniel at Bulb, a REST API with that information sounds great.

    I'd be interested to see a potential query and example response of what you might expect the data to look like (when you get to that point).
    With the potential for so much data to be returned, especially with the fact that there are mutiple rates and times to deal with, it could end up being a response that's pretty difficult to parse.

    How will usage for multiple rates be returned?

    On a multiple rate meter you presumably get multiple figures for each half hour, so if I requested a specific day's readings I could possibly be sent back 144 numbers (with timestamps)?
    Or maybe you'd request the different rates individually and get 48 each time?
    Or 2/3 groups of 48?

    {
    - Data: {
    customer ID: #######
    - Electric: {
    meter ID: #######
    Rate 1: {
    timestamp: 00:00:02
    returned: "12345, 12348, 12352, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12358, 12362, 12370, 12371",
    index: "0:11, 46:47",
    }
    timestamp: 00:00:02
    Rate 2: { "00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000, 00000",
    index: "12:45",
    }
    }
    }
    }

  • Hi @Vince and @mowcius,

    I'm one of the software engineers on the smart team at Bulb. We haven't started development on the public usage API yet, but we're really keen to hear what you're looking for from it.

    The initial version will most likely be a REST API which gives you access to your raw smart meter readings at monthly, daily and half-hourly intervals.

    Is there any other usage data you be interested in getting from an API?

    Hello,
    It would be interesting to get info such:
    - meter serial number
    - Historical data
    - The benchmarked consumption based on the number of person in the flat/house.

    I have been struggling to join the smart meter client list. Is there a more efficient way?
    Thx
  • I signed up for this 3 weeks ago now and haven't heard anything at all, I reached out on Twitter and was completely ignored also.

    The price hikes, the still lack of anything to do with smart meters and the spiralling of Customer Service down the toilet is really getting irritating now.
  • Heya @chalky.

    Sorry you've not got a response.

    If you've signed up to the smart trial list then we'll be in contact with you when we are able to read your smart meter. If we are not able to, then we'll let you know when we can come and fit a new second-generation meter. It is unlikely to be before January 2019.
  • Just had confirmation that I'm now on the smart tariff. Good work considering I only clicked the button on Sunday evening!

    I have a few questions:

    1. My meters are an Elster AS300P and BK-G4E. They are SMETS1 units installed by Scottish Power, and I see they are on the list at the link posted above as "SMETS 1 Meters for adoption by DCC". Does this mean that my meters have now been enrolled in DCC and are effectively SMETS2? If I were to switch supplier, not that I'm planning to, does this mean that they are now readable by any supplier?

    2. I can't seem to find anywhere how the currently advertised rates are affected by the 11 November price increase. Are the smart rates I'm on now current or will they be going up after 11 November?

    3. The rate changes on my meter are currently 15 minutes late. i.e., all the rate changes are happening at xx:15 and not on the hour. The clock on my meter is correct. Not a huge problem but since it's a beta test I thought I'd report the bug. Is there a better way of reporting bugs?

    4. I'm also interested in writing some code to access the API when a test phase is opened. Could you add me to the list to be notified when it's ready? I don't really have any comments on the initial data format or content.

    Thanks!

  • Hi @Hooloovoo

    I'm Selina. I'm part of the team who are working to get our members set up with smart meters.

    I can help you out with your questions:

    1) The plan is to enrol SMETS1 meters into the DCC in 2019 (nationwide, across all suppliers) so there's no change in your SMETS1 meters right now. If you switch supplier the new supplier may not be able to read them. Bulb are able to read some SMETS1 meters remotely (including yours), so it would depend on the setup the new supplier has. You're absolutely right that once SMETS1 meters have been enrolled into the DCC they will readable by all suppliers

    2) The price change on 11th November does not affect the Smart tariff rates. If you have gas too, your rates will be increasing as announced before.

    3) Thanks for flagging this. Let me check I've understood: the Smart tariff switches from Overnight to Off peak at 7am - is it switching at 7.15am for you? How have you noticed this?

    4) We'll be posting on the Community to gather interest about this soon. For now, you can a look at the above discussion that @Daniel at Bulb and others have been having about what the API will and should include.
  • Thanks @Selina at Bulb.

    Yes, you're correct regarding the 15 minute offset. I noticed it via the in-home display and confirmed it via the meter itself. I've added some photos to show what's happening. Once the time is within 99 minutes of a rate change, my IHD says "Next tariff in xx mins" and indicates with an arrow if the cost is going up or down.

    At 19:05 the IHD still says 10 minutes to go. The meter itself shows the correct time, and indicates that it is incrementing import register R02 (peak) and the IHD still shows the peak rate tariff. At 19:15 the cost on the IHD indicates the new off-peak rate, and the meter indicates that it is now incrementing import register R01 (off-peak).

    The rates are cycling correctly there's just a 15 minute offset on all changes.

  • edited November 8
    I was just looking into this as recently my smart meter kicked back into life (it's been naff for 2 or so years).
    (I am not part of the trial or this beta)
    It now has signs of life, the clock has constantly been drifting (it was over an hour and a half out). But is now correct for the first time ever and it shows usage in bars/numbers (no cost of course).
    It's a BG Landis-Gyr one.

    Are you logging the data at all?
    At the rate I have it set at it was very regular, much quicker than 30 mins you want to use in this trial iirc.?
    Can you send the cost figures to it for the standard tariff I am on (no need to keep it to the smart tariff only).

    I was going to join the trial as the https://account.bulb.co.uk/dist/b46a432a1197a49745ee5e1aa4bdc044.svg image shows it should be good.
    A check though shows the off-peak @12.68p per kWh is more than the current rate @12.39p (so your chart is misleading!)
    So I would almost be guaranteed to be paying more.

    I know how the multi-rate setup works (I used Eco-7 in the past to good effect, so it's nothing new)

    I would have joined otherwise.
  • bsimmo said:

    A check though shows the off-peak @12.68p per kWh is more than the current rate @12.39p (so your chart is misleading!)

    The chart is an example. You need to check the actual rates for your DNO region.
    So I would almost be guaranteed to be paying more.
    Are you comparing the smart off-peak rate with your single-rate before or after the increase on 11 November? Remember your single-rate will be going up soon, but the smart off-peak rate already has the increase factored in. My off-peak rate is less than my single-rate is going to be in 3 days time, so providing I can keep my peak-rate usage low, then the smart tariff is a no brainer. Particularly so with charging my EV overnight.
  • What the chart is showing is misleading, it shows all rates bar peak to be saving money, no matter what I will be paying.
    I know it alters per area but the prices should be comparable no matter where you are.
    Smart tarrif will be more where normal tariff is more anyway.

    It was as I compared last night. The chart is not predicting the future when it was made.


    But the other question is, why are they not sending the price and logging for the normal tariff (if they can to somebody's meter). They can do that now with no need for a trial of a new tarrif. They would also get more working data from smart meters. The whole point of it.

  • mowcius said:

    @Daniel at Bulb, a REST API with that information sounds great.

    I'd be interested to see a potential query and example response of what you might expect the data to look like (when you get to that point).
    With the potential for so much data to be returned, especially with the fact that there are mutiple rates and times to deal with, it could end up being a response that's pretty difficult to parse.

    How will usage for multiple rates be returned?

    On a multiple rate meter you presumably get multiple figures for each half hour, so if I requested a specific day's readings I could possibly be sent back 144 numbers (with timestamps)?
    Or maybe you'd request the different rates individually and get 48 each time?
    Or 2/3 groups of 48?

    For what it's worth, this is the data/format another provider provides for their time of use tariff. Just the raw consumption in half hour blocks.


    {"count":4944,"next":"https://api.octopus.energy/v1/electricity-meter-points/MPAN/meters/SERIALNUMBER/consumption/?page=2","previous":null,"results":[{"consumption":0.102,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T23:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-11T00:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.062,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T23:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T23:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.088,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T22:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T23:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.062,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T22:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T22:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.093,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T21:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T22:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.065,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T21:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T21:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.095,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T20:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T21:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.064,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T20:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T20:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.096,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T19:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T20:00:00Z"},{"consumption":1.539,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T19:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T19:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.775,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T18:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T19:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.199,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T18:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T18:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.16,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T17:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T18:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.215,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T17:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T17:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.248,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T16:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T17:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.133,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T16:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T16:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.147,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T15:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T16:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.092,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T15:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T15:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.069,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T14:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T15:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.404,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T14:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T14:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.513,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T13:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T14:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.399,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T13:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T13:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.325,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T12:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T13:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.002,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T12:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T12:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.0,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T11:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T12:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.002,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T11:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T11:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.892,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T10:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T11:00:00Z"},{"consumption":1.242,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T10:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T10:30:00Z"},{"consumption":1.432,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T09:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T10:00:00Z"},{"consumption":1.241,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T09:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T09:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.343,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T08:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T09:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.0,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T08:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T08:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.042,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T07:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T08:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.048,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T07:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T07:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.075,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T06:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T07:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.053,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T06:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T06:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.068,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T05:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T06:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.037,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T05:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T05:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.066,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T04:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T05:00:00Z"},{"consumption":1.249,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T04:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T04:30:00Z"},{"consumption":1.332,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T03:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T04:00:00Z"},{"consumption":2.958,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T03:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T03:30:00Z"},{"consumption":3.048,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T02:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T03:00:00Z"},{"consumption":2.935,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T02:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T02:30:00Z"},{"consumption":2.747,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T01:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T02:00:00Z"},{"consumption":1.054,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T01:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T01:30:00Z"},{"consumption":1.065,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T00:30:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T01:00:00Z"},{"consumption":0.072,"interval_start":"2018-11-10T00:00:00Z","interval_end":"2018-11-10T00:30:00Z"},{"consumption":0.075,"interval_start":"2018-11-09T23:30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  • Hooloovoo said:

    Yes, you're correct regarding the 15 minute offset. I noticed it via the in-home display and confirmed it via the meter itself. I've added some photos to show what's happening. Once the time is within 99 minutes of a rate change, my IHD says "Next tariff in xx mins" and indicates with an arrow if the cost is going up or down.

    @Selina at Bulb

    Just to update anyone watching on this - I talked to Elliot by email and he said the offset was similar to what happens with Economy 7, where there is some jitter added ("stepped") so that not everyone turns stuff on at exactly the same time. That's fine, I do something similar already with my EV charging. Rather than set it to start at exactly, say, 1am, I add a random few minutes just to try to prevent everyone starting charging at once and a massive inrush current to the grid. However, if I hadn't have been paying attention I would never have noticed and I wasn't told when I was switched to the tariff exactly what my rate change times would be. I could have been starting the washing machine, for example, at 7pm not realising that I actually had another 15 minutes of peak rate to go. When the tariff goes out of beta you'll have to be more specific when people sign up as to exactly what jitter has been applied.

    In any case, as of this morning the rates are now changing on the hour without the 15 minute offset. So I guess something must have been done to change it.

    My next bug report is that the gas rate used by my IHD hasn't been updated with the new rate following the 11 November increase.
  • edited November 20
    phproxy said:

    For what it's worth, this is the data/format another provider provides for their time of use tariff. Just the raw consumption in half hour blocks.

    Interesting, thanks.
  • Hi @Hooloovoo

    Thanks for your photos previously - really handy!

    A couple of points on the meter timing:

    1) We think we've fixed this 15 minute bug - could you let me know if the 10 min countdown on your IHD is now appearing correctly?

    2) Elliot is correct that meter timing is offset, but this is the meter clock. This is to prevent grid surges. So, the real time might be 1.00pm, but your meter would show 1.02pm, or 1.14pm - for example. We don't think this is related to what you flagged on 7th November, but hopefully Q1 will confirm for us.

    On the pricing, we're getting this fixed now. Should be updated shortly! Thanks for letting us know.

    For clarity to the thread, the Smart electricity tariff did not have a price change on 11th November. We must give 30 days notice for a price increase (Ofgem regulation - though at Bulb we always give 60 days). As the Smart tariff was launched on 9th October we would not have had enough time to notify and we did not want to launch a tariff then announce a price change within a few days!
  • How does this "trial" tariff work? If I sign up to it, will I actually be paying it? Or will it be a trial in the sense of receiving an ACTUAL bill based on a REAL tariff and information on what I would have paid if I had been charged the TRIAL tariff? I'm not sure I fancy the idea of trying something out just to see how much it costs! I would like to be able to compare the two to see how I would fare should I switch to the smart tariff.
  • @Bascule, it's a real world trial as in you'll be paying the tariff prices. The trial will be to try and establish whether there any process changes or account/system issues that Bulb need to work on before it's advertised more widely.

    Just like any tariff, you need to carefully consider whether or not it would be right for you, and just like any other I'm sure you can switch back if you decide that it's not.
  • 1) We think we've fixed this 15 minute bug - could you let me know if the 10 min countdown on your IHD is now appearing correctly?

    Yes! It was fixed a few days ago. Sorry I forgot to post an update.

    I'll keep an eye out for when the gas tariff information get pushed.

    For clarity to the thread, the Smart electricity tariff did not have a price change on 11th November. We must give 30 days notice for a price increase (Ofgem regulation - though at Bulb we always give 60 days). As the Smart tariff was launched on 9th October we would not have had enough time to notify and we did not want to launch a tariff then announce a price change within a few days!

    Is this code for the smart tariff rates will also be going up soon?
  • Loving how the "Meter readings" table of the "My usage" tab is now being populating with daily readings; three rates from the electric meter, one from the gas meter. That's better than Scottish Power ever managed, and they installed them! Good work! B)

    Now I just need that API to start downloading the half-hourly data ... 👍 👍 👍
  • edited November 23
    Hooloovoo said:

    Loving how the "Meter readings" table of the "My usage" tab is now being populating with daily readings; three rates from the electric meter, one from the gas meter. That's better than Scottish Power ever managed, and they installed them! Good work!

    You're just making me jealous of your fancy meter now!

  • mowcius said:

    You're just making me jealous of your fancy meter now!

    My fancy meter is now broken.



    The last smart meter reading showing on my account was November 23, and that would have been taken at 00:01 so there are two missing readings as of today. Also my "Estimated Annual Cost" has dropped to just over £600, which I am not unhappy about but I suspect is wrong :)

    Fun times B)
  • Given the CAD I was interested in doesn't work as I'd hoped and will become a brick as soon as the manufacturer can't be bothered to support it any more, I'm very much interested in trying to access some data as soon as you have anything to play with @Daniel at Bulb . Count me in for a beta test! Or even alpha for that matter!
  • Oh and for info @Selina at Bulb my account is now showing meter readings up to today (27th) but the average monthly usage is still "Hmmm ..." as above.
  • edited November 29

    The plan is to enrol SMETS1 meters into the DCC in 2019 (nationwide, across all suppliers)

    How will this happen and how will I know it has happened? I requested the Bulb smart tariff and was told:
    We can't read your meter

    Looks like we can't currently read your smart meter. This means we won't be able to sign you up to our smart tariff.

    Your old supplier installed a first generation smart meter we can't read. We'll look to install a second generation one by the end of 2020 at the latest, although we hope to do it sooner.
    However, my meters are a Landis & Gyr E470 and G470 that are in the DCC list. So this information is somewhat contradictory and still very vague...
  • ross5326 said:

    However, my meters are a Landis & Gyr E470 and G470 that are in the DCC list. So this information is somewhat contradictory and still very vague...

    I have a friend with the same meters who has the same refusal. I was surprised since, as you say, they are in the list of DCC compatible meters. I know that Bulb are still not enrolling in the DCC yet they are just able to read a selection of SMETS1 meters via a third party.

    Any thoughts on this @Selina at Bulb? I know you said you have to check meters on a case-by-case basic. But have you found any consistency yet between those that are DCC-ready and those you already know you can read?
  • And I've got the same electric smart meter as you, Hooloovoo, but I received the same message as ross5326.

    They can read my gas meter, though.
  • AndrewC said:

    And I've got the same electric smart meter as you, Hooloovoo, but I received the same message as ross5326. They can read my gas meter, though.

    Well that makes no sense at all. I could understand if there is some issue depending on how it's been setup by the installing provider, but the gas meter readings get sent via the electric meter. How can they read gas but not electric?

    Which supplier installed them? Were they installed at the same time as dual fuel?

  • edited November 30
    SSE installed them. I don't understand your final question.

    ETA: I received this in an email on Wednesday,
    "We'll need to install an electricity smart meter to move you onto our smart tariff. We've added you to our waiting list and look to do this by the end of 2020 at the latest, although we hope to do it much sooner.

    Luckily, we can read your smart gas meter. Which means you won't have to send us another gas meter reading."
  • AndrewC said:

    SSE installed them. I don't understand your final question.

    I just meant whether they were both installed at the same time by the same supplier.

    I have an old friend who is still on separate suppliers. I know, don't ask. He gets electric from nPower and gas from British Gas. He's just had a smart electric meter fitted. Now what happens if British Gas want to install a smart gas meter? Are they allowed to pair it with the nPower-owned electric meter? Would they even be able to read it? What about if they want to install a different brand of meter to what nPower used?

    I could understand a situation where electric could be read but not gas. The other way around seems impossible.

    Any clues on this @Selina at Bulb?
  • Yeah, your friend's situation is a bit nuts.

    SSE installed both meters at the same time in 2014.

    To confirm, the electricity smart meter is an Elster AS300P with an AM110R on its top.
  • AndrewC said:

    To confirm, the electricity smart meter is an Elster AS300P with an AM110R on its top.

    Yep, same meter and radio module. My gas meter is a BK-G4E. Mine were installed earlier this year in March, so they're newer than yours.

    Perhaps your electric meter has different firmware. If you go to the "Utility Menu", then "Identification", I have;

    ACOR F/W 55497, ASP04.04.01
    MCOR F/W 29747 MSP04.03.00
    BOOT F/W 08094 BSP04.01.01
    MCOR CRC 0x0253
  • Where's your Utility Menu?

    I know that one big difference between us is the Inhouse Display. Mine is very basic and looks nothing like the 'fancy' modern ones you flyboys have! It's a square ONZO one. It has only been able to display current electricity draw and daily accumulative usage, which have still been very useful since I switched away from SSE back in 2015 or so. I've just checked it and interestingly, it now shows a figure for gas spend, which it didn't do before Wednesday.
  • edited November 30
    That was interesting; I've never had a fiddle with the display before!

    I found
    ******
    ******
    ******
    ******
  • AndrewC said:

    Where's your Utility Menu?

    Of the three buttons on the meter, they are essentially "up" and "down" with "enter" in the middle.

    The first options you'll get are "General", "Utility Menu", and "Back".

    So press down to get to the utility menu, then enter. After that you can go to "Identification" and then step through the firmware revisions.

    As far as I can tell there's nothing you can do wrong or change any values. There are two menus that require a "Consumer PIN" and an "Engineer PIN" of which I don't know either value.

    I only know any of this because I'm confident/careless enough to press random buttons to find out what they do!
    AndrewC said:

    I know that one big difference between us is the Inhouse Display.

    I wouldn't say mine was fancy. It's not even a dot matrix display. It's an LCD with fixed display items that can be turned on or off, like something from 1985!

  • edited November 30
    AndrewC said:

    That was interesting; I've never had a fiddle with the display before!

    I've taken a photo of every screen on mine as I stepped through the options. Because apparently I'm sad like that and have no life, and find these things somehow entertaining!
    AndrewC said:

    REDACTED

    Definitely older than mine then. That must be the answer. I wonder how you can get it flashed to the latest release.
  • edited November 30
    Yeah, it would be nice if there was an easy way to do it rather than having to replace the meter. I can't wait to start charging the car at a cheaper rate. Although there probably might not be that much in it as we only do 5 - 6000 miles a year. And if we're at friends/ relatives we use their electricity instead (with a bottle of wine for thanks that costs more than 40 kWh anyway).
  • AndrewC said:

    Yeah, it would be nice if there was an easy way to do it rather than having to replace the meter. I can't wait to start charging the car at a cheaper rate. Although there probably might not be that much in it as we only do 5 - 6000 miles a year.

    Same here, I think it's marginal for me but I thought I'd give it a go.

    For my area, the peak rate is about 19p per kWh more than the single-rate, and the overnight rate about 5p per kWh cheaper than the single rate. So for every 1kWh I use at peak rate I need to use at least 4kWh at night to break even over just having a single rate.

    At 4 miles per kWh that's 16 miles a day. I have a 24 mile round trip commute. It should work out cheaper providing I can limit the peak rate use. If I use 2kWh at peak rate, which is possible with the oven on, then I'm probably not going to be driving enough to save.
  • On this thread, @RickEd has just said that he has been moved over onto the smart tariff using his SSE meters. @Selina at Bulb do you know why his meters work but apparently the ones that @AndrewC have from SSE do not?
  • I've just checked the 'My Usage' section and it says, "You're now on our smart tariff and we're receiving your gas meter data. You'll still need to manually submit your electricity meter readings."

    It's a little confusing. But the meter only has a figure for R1, as R2, R3 and R4 all read zero.
  • AndrewC said:

    But the meter only has a figure for R1, as R2, R3 and R4 all read zero.

    That's expected, isn't it, if you're still on the single rate electric tariff?
  • Hooloovoo said:

    AndrewC said:

    But the meter only has a figure for R1, as R2, R3 and R4 all read zero.

    That's expected, isn't it, if you're still on the single rate electric tariff?
    Yes, that does appear to confirm what you say, despite the message saying I'm now on the smart tariff.
  • edited November 30
    AndrewC said:

    Yes, that does appear to confirm what you say, despite the message saying I'm now on the smart tariff.

    It says you're on the smart tariff for your gas, but not for your electric. Even though it doesn't make any difference for gas other than remotely reading the meter.

    Also, if you had only just changed to the smart tariff, you'd have to wait until you'd gone through all electric rates before anything other than R1 would show above zero.
  • Yeah, I'm paying the same price for gas!

    The gas switched over on Wednesday, and my IHD says I have spent £5.50 since then so if the electric had changed it also would have shown.

    But the mystery about your point on the gas info being transmitted by the electric meter goes on - where did you find that info?
  • AndrewC said:

    The gas switched over on Wednesday, and my IHD says I have spent £5.50 since then so if the electric had changed it also would have shown.

    Is yours showing the right tariff for gas? Mine still hasn't had the increase from 11 November pushed to it yet.
    AndrewC said:

    But the mystery about your point on the gas info being transmitted by the electric meter goes on - where did you find that info?

    That's just how it works. The electric meter hosts a Zigbee-radio based Home Area Network (HAN) that the gas meter and the IHD communicate on. The electric meter then handles the uplink to the supplier, since it has mains power supply for the higher power GSM radio. The gas meter is battery powered, hence it only sending readings every 30 minutes, and only on the low power local HAN.
  • I am paying the new higher gas rate.

    Your knowledge is much greater than mine here. Thanks for explaining.
  • AndrewC said:

    I am paying the new higher gas rate.

    Oh, I'm sure I'm paying the higher rate. My IHD just doesn't know about it yet. :)
    AndrewC said:

    Your knowledge is much greater than mine here. Thanks for explaining.

    No worries. I'm very curious how the gas meter readings can possibly be getting through but not the electric. Hopefully someone from Bulb will be able to explain soon.

    For what it's worth, I'm getting daily readings from my meters showing up in my Bulb account under "My Usage". But the gas seems a bit intermittent. Already two days have had electric readings but no gas reading show up.
  • yytyyt
    edited November 30
    @Hooloovoo @AndrewC I thought I read somewhere that the smart tariff wasn't increasing, though may be wrong. Suggest you search the threads or check with the team.

    Or is smart tariff just for electricity?
  • edited November 30
    yyt said:

    Or is smart tariff just for electricity?

    Smart tariff is just for electricity. No change to the gas prices.

    The electric smart tariff didn't go up on 11 November, since the prices were already set. The gas price did go up though.
  • My monthly payment wasn't taken this month, and I haven't received a statement.

    Apparently payments have been "paused" for smart-tariff beta customers this month due to issues with billing. It should be back to normal next month.

    I thought I'd post it here, since Bulb haven't done anything useful, like, I don't know, making an announcement.
  • Hooloovoo said:

    I thought I'd post it here, since Bulb haven't done anything useful, like, I don't know, making an announcement.

    :mrgreen:

  • No meter readings have appeared in my account since the 7th. Any news on what's going on @Selina at Bulb? The important thing with a beta test of a service is that you need to keep your customers informed as to what is going on.

    Before anyone make a joke "you need to contact Bulb directly with account related queries" .... I'm just blogging this more than really expecting a reply.
  • Readings from 8-12 December have appeared all at once today. I assume some software gets stuck and someone needs to poke it to get it working again. Would be nice to have some regular updates on how things are progressing and what's been done so far, rather than everyone being kept in the dark.
  • edited December 12
    @Hooloovoo snap! Just responding to your comment :p

    Thanks for spotting this. We weren't able to process enrollment or meter readings due to a timeout caused by the amount of data we're now receiving from our third party.

    Not to worry, no data has been lost and we're processing all data that's been missed so far.

    We've also set up automatic monitoring that will alert our developers to any missing data.

    In terms of updates, @Daniel at Bulb and the smart team have set some time aside to be answering your questions and getting your feedback. You've been providing us with some great insights so far and they'd love you to continue to do so.

    Things get a little quieter at Bulb over the Christmas period. So, for the next week or so, the smart team will be on hand to answer your questions and comment on your feedback.

    Come January, we'll introduce our smart team to the Community fully. We'll also make sure that we're responding to your comments and updating you of any important changes/issues as the trial continues.

    Once the trial is over we'll be able to automate better communications with our smart tariff members. Ironing out the creases during the smart trial will be a huge help with this.
  • Thanks for spotting this. We weren't able to process enrollment or meter readings due to a timeout caused by the amount of data we're now receiving from our third party.

    Heh. I guessed right. This sounds a fun project to work on. By the time I'm next looking for a job it'll all be finished and working.

    Not to worry, no data has been lost and we're processing all data that's been missed so far.

    For reference, the daily readings from my gas meter seem somewhat intermittent. On the following days I have electric readings but the gas is missing:

    November: 8, 21, 27, 29
    December: 1, 3, 5, 11

    In terms of updates, @Daniel at Bulb and the smart team have set some time aside to be answering your questions and getting your feedback.

    Sounds great!
  • I have recently bought a property that has a Elster AS300P smart meter, seemingly installed by SSE. I have been on the trial smart tariff with bulb for a few weeks. What are my options for getting an in-home display?
  • Lewis_P said:

    I have recently bought a property that has a Elster AS300P smart meter, seemingly installed by SSE. I have been on the trial smart tariff with bulb for a few weeks. What are my options for getting an in-home display?

    I've posted some comments on the same question here:

    https://community.bulb.co.uk/discussion/comment/24352/#Comment_24352

    @AndrewC - To add to the confusion, apparently @Lewis_P has an SSE-installed Elster AS300P and it's being read by Bulb even though yours apparently cannot.
  • !
    It must be my old firmware?
    It's a little annoying but not that much.
    I want to be in a position to see if I can get the timer on the charging of my Zoe going.
  • AndrewC said:

    I want to be in a position to see if I can get the timer on the charging of my Zoe going.

    Well, the meter type is irrelevant to playing with the car timer! I used to use the car timer to charge overnight even before I had a time-of-use tariff, just to be nice to the grid and my local sub-station.
  • AndrewC said:

    !
    It must be my old firmware?

    I'll take a look at what firmware mine is running on this evening. I think I read somewhere that it may also be to do with signal strength in the area or something.

  • Lewis_P said:

    AndrewC said:

    !
    It must be my old firmware?

    I'll take a look at what firmware mine is running on this evening. I think I read somewhere that it may also be to do with signal strength in the area or something.

    Even more curious is that they are able to read my smart gas meter, whose information is transmitted by the smart electricity meter (says Hooloovoo who knows much more about this than I do).
  • AndrewC said:

    Even more curious is that they are able to read my smart gas meter, whose information is transmitted by the smart electricity meter (says Hooloovoo who knows much more about this than I do).

    That makes very little sense.
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