As an electrical Contractor- I don’t want a smart meter

I know they are to delay infrastructure upgrades
I know optional surge pricing at a later date
I know optional load limiting at later date
I know along with standard anti tamper, there is remote disconnection
I know firms already profiling customers from energy data and in effect spying on occupancy
I don’t want another RFI as home plugs worse enough (source of radio noise)

I’d be quite happy supplying a dumb meter from an electrical factors or leasing from a company and I know “smart meters” optional.

So what are the dumb options and as I know not free as paid for by customers indirectly, drop a cheque in the post for the one I won’t be having;-)

Let’s see how long this post lasts

Let’s see how long this post lasts

Well, it’s not going to get deleted if that’s what you’re implying.

Not entirely sure what point you’re making. Bulb aren’t even actively rolling out smart meters yet, so it’s unlikely you’ll have been pressured into getting one. Besides, as you say they are optional.

Edit to add: UK smart meters don’t use power-line communication, so your reference to home plugs just seems to indicate that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Not even sure why I’m bothering to reply to be honest.

Edit some more: Spying on occupancy? I hope you have a trusted internet supplier because that provides a far greater source of “occupancy” than anything else ever would.

In response and in addition to:

“Edit some more: Spying on occupancy? I hope you have a trusted internet supplier because that provides a far greater source of “occupancy” than anything else ever would”

Pretty sure Mrs May has facilitated our ‘trusted leaders’ and Civil Servants in access to this and much worse recently; this Wikipedia reference currently seems well sourced - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#Authorities_allowed_to_access_Internet_connection_records

Case of picking our battles I think!

Case of picking our battles I think!

Abso-fricken-lutely!

Smart meters? Meh …

Hi Sparkie,
you can opt out of having a smart meter, they’re not compulsory.
We’ve also written about what happens to your smart meter data, if you did decide to sign up.

Let’s see how long this post lasts

Well, it’s not going to get deleted if that’s what you’re implying.

Not entirely sure what point you’re making. Bulb aren’t even actively rolling out smart meters yet, so it’s unlikely you’ll have been pressured into getting one. Besides, as you say they are optional.

Edit to add: UK smart meters don’t use power-line communication, so your reference to home plugs just seems to indicate that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Not even sure why I’m bothering to reply to be honest.

Edit some more: Spying on occupancy? I hope you have a trusted internet supplier because that provides a far greater source of “occupancy” than anything else ever would.

Wireless communications from smart meters are another radio transmission that can interfere with my hobby.
It’s a source I don’t want as switching power supplies already cause issues.
Example

Hi Sparkie, you can opt out of having a smart meter, they're not compulsory. We've also written about what happens to your smart meter data, if you did decide to sign up.

Feel free to opt me out today, EDF got aggressive over them and there is no argument that would convince us to have one.
They are a fudged roll out of a product that is zero benefit to consumers.
The only savings are consumption reduction- which can be done with any meter.

@Sparkie We do have to ask if you want one as per OFGEM regulations, so when you receive that email, just let us know you don’t want one and we will not install a smart meter :slight_smile:

Wireless communications from smart meters are another radio transmission that can interfere with my hobby.

Agreed in principle. But the high power side is GSM (which is simply adding another phone to your household), and the low power side is Zigbee which hopefully shouldn’t cause too many issues. Do you have a similar video for European smart meters? The technology is very different to that of the USA.

I have little sympathy for the ham radio hobby. Life moves on and the spectrum use is more important. Sorry. And I say this as someone who regularly works globally at various radio astronomy observatories which require local radio silence. Lots of things outside my control interfere with my hobbies, but I don’t try to prevent technical progress because of my own selfishness.

There are many arguments against smart meters, the botched rollout that you mention being the main one. You do yourself no favours by relying on the less robust of the various arguments. I for one am saving money via my smart meter - I’m now on the Bulb time-of-use tariff allowing me to charge my EV at a cost that is considerably lower than I could have otherwise achieved. Sure, I could have moved to an Economy-7 tariff that have long been available before smart meters, but that involves a physical change of meter at my own cost, and then another cost again if I wish to change back. With my smart meter I’m currently able to switch between tariff types with no hassle or cost via remote configuration. This type of facility is only going to become more important as electrical demand increases further, and I’m aware you’ve already mentioned “delay infrastructure upgrades” which is true but they aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive endeavours.

This will be most last post on this thread, because as @GeordiePete pointed out there are so many bigger issues to worry about than smart meters, that really do have far more granular profiling and spying concerns.

Hi Sparkie, you can opt out of having a smart meter, they're not compulsory. We've also written about what happens to your smart meter data, if you did decide to sign up.

Whilst I am sure that Bulb would safeguard people’s data that does not stop unscrupulous governments and other corporations in the future misusing the said data. One only has to see the varies pieces of legislation introduced in recent years by the government to legitimise its spying on millions of people. There are other issues that speak against having a ‘smart’ meter installed. Here is a useful website: https://smartme.co.uk/campaigns-against.html

@wulf please stop spamming your propaganda websites on the forum

Whilst I am sure that Bulb would safeguard people's data that does not stop unscrupulous governments and other corporations in the future misusing the said data. One only has to see the varies pieces of legislation introduced in recent years by the government to legitimise its spying on millions of people. There are other issues that speak against having a 'smart' meter installed. Here is a useful website: [snipped]

If you’re worried about privacy of data from smart meters, you need to get off the internet. Like now. Right now.

When you find out what profiling is possible from your internet connections, from usage times, to the sites you visit, it’s going to blow your mind. The issues are far worse than anything a smart meter could possible tell anyone.

@wulf please stop spamming your propaganda websites on the forum

Speak for yourself. Quite informative.

Perosnally I think smart meters are a good idea, the only issue is I should own my own data

In other words ability to download it myself, and have the ability to delete the online data (DCC, supplier, any middle men) upon request, especially after moving suplier !

Whilst I am sure that Bulb would safeguard people's data that does not stop unscrupulous governments and other corporations in the future misusing the said data. One only has to see the varies pieces of legislation introduced in recent years by the government to legitimise its spying on millions of people. There are other issues that speak against having a 'smart' meter installed. Here is a useful website: [snipped]

If you’re worried about privacy of data from smart meters, you need to get off the internet. Like now. Right now.

When you find out what profiling is possible from your internet connections, from usage times, to the sites you visit, it’s going to blow your mind. The issues are far worse than anything a smart meter could possible tell anyone.

Thank you for your concern but I use a VPN and I am wise enough to not own a ‘smartphone’ where your every movement may be tracked by GCHQ and even global corporations. Whilst no method of concealment is foolproof I see no reason to make it easier for the global capitalists and their lackey government agencies.
My concerns about ‘smartmeters’ also revolve around issues of health, their vulnerability to be used as an indication of occupancy which can be hacked into by burglars and also the ability of utility companies to switch off your electricity and gas remotely. Having a ‘smartmeter’ is of no benefit if one is able to read a digital and analogue meter and carry out simple arithmetic. This is why the misnomer ‘smart’ is an oxymoron.
Much of the hoo-ha by the chattering classes who advocate their installation is to a large extent motivated by virtue signalling and the herd instinct to ‘belong’ and conform to the expectations of an ‘in-crowd’.

Perosnally I think smart meters are a good idea, the only issue is I should own my own data

In other words ability to download it myself, and have the ability to delete the online data (DCC, supplier, any middle men) upon request, especially after moving suplier !

I am genuinely curious-could you tell me why you consider ‘smart’ meters to be a good idea? Where is their added value and utility from a customer’s perspective?

@wulf please stop spamming your propaganda websites on the forum

Speak for yourself. Quite informative.

Vielen Dank!

@wulf please stop spamming your propaganda websites on the forum

One man’s ‘propaganda’ is another man’s information. Is the glass half empty or half full? It is all a matter of perspective. Not all of us feel the need to conform to the expectations of a herd.

Thank you for your concern but I use a VPN and I am wise enough to not own a 'smartphone' where your every movement may be tracked by GCHQ and even global corporations. Whilst no method of concealment is foolproof I see no reason to make it easier for the global capitalists and their lackey government agencies. My concerns about 'smartmeters' also revolve around issues of health, their vulnerability to be used as an indication of occupancy which can be hacked into by burglars and also the ability of utility companies to switch off your electricity and gas remotely. Having a 'smartmeter' is of no benefit if one is able to read a digital and analogue meter and carry out simple arithmetic. This is why the misnomer 'smart' is an oxymoron. Much of the hoo-ha by the chattering classes who advocate their installation is to a large extent motivated by virtue signalling and the herd instinct to 'belong' and conform to the expectations of an 'in-crowd'.

Believe it or not I actually agree with you, apart from the non-existent health concerns.

I just take a rather more pragmatic viewpoint, and whilst I do protect my own privacy in many of the same ways you mention, I haven’t yet donned the tin foil hat :slight_smile:

Thank you for your concern but I use a VPN and I am wise enough to not own a 'smartphone' where your every movement may be tracked by GCHQ and even global corporations. Whilst no method of concealment is foolproof I see no reason to make it easier for the global capitalists and their lackey government agencies. My concerns about 'smartmeters' also revolve around issues of health, their vulnerability to be used as an indication of occupancy which can be hacked into by burglars and also the ability of utility companies to switch off your electricity and gas remotely. Having a 'smartmeter' is of no benefit if one is able to read a digital and analogue meter and carry out simple arithmetic. This is why the misnomer 'smart' is an oxymoron. Much of the hoo-ha by the chattering classes who advocate their installation is to a large extent motivated by virtue signalling and the herd instinct to 'belong' and conform to the expectations of an 'in-crowd'.

Believe it or not I actually agree with you, apart from the non-existent health concerns.

I just take a rather more pragmatic viewpoint, and whilst I do protect my own privacy in many of the same ways you mention, I haven’t yet donned the tin foil hat :slight_smile:

LoL =)