Home ventilation system running overheads

The other day, I spotted an ad for a product by enviro vent. It supposedly uses a small fan motor to move fresh air around the house preventing mould and moisture problems.

My house being a 1900s miners terrace and double glazed means it regularly has damp and condensation issues (that and me running the heating at 18C).

I enquired about a brochure and found the cost to me for the system would be around £1400, since its an electric appliance I was wondering about how much electricity and therefore cost it’ll use, whether the costs are good for my health and not too bad for my wallet.

Has any bulb member installed such a system? The system I was after wasn’t air conditioning so its not actively cooling the air, just moving it about.

I dont know of the system but wouldn’t a dehumidifier sort the moisture problem.

@scudo I have thought about it, but I think that addresses a symptom rather than a cause. When I had the survey done it’s a common thing in older houses that have had upvc installed that they can’t ‘breathe’ anymore and causes the air inside to go stagnant. Modern houses were designed with insulation in mind so they are suitably ventilated.

since its an electric appliance I was wondering about how much electricity and therefore cost it'll use

Any idea how many watts it uses and how long it’ll need to be on for?

If it’s a 1 kW (1,000 watt) device being on for an hour, that’ll be (as you expect) 1 kWh - so a month (1 kwh * 24 hours *7 day *4 weeks) would be about 672 kWh - so £89.21 per month in the East Midlands at 13.262p per kWh.

If it’s a much more sensible 500 w (a reasonable medium to high desktop PC power supply running at 100%,) that’ll be 0.5 kWh per month - 336 kWh - £44.56 per month.

If it’s a 100 w maximum which runs at 50% for 6 hours a day, then it’s a bit more complex:
50% power - 100 / 50 = so 50 watts for 6 hours = 50 *6 hours = 300 watts a day * 7 * 4 = 8400 watts = 8.4 kWh = £1.11 per month

If you can let us know the specifications of the system and your region, we can do the approximate maths for you if you want :wink:

[don’t know the watts, but do now the amps? then watts = volts * amps and volts in the UK is 230v. Remember power supplies will be ‘marked’ at the maximum they can ‘pull’ so a 500w PC power supply can pull a maximum of 500w : but it’ll only do that if it’s full of hard drives, graphics cards and is being used for intensive tasks: otherwise it’ll just use what it needs]

since its an electric appliance I was wondering about how much electricity and therefore cost it'll use

Any idea how many watts it uses and how long it’ll need to be on for?

If it’s a 1 kW (1,000 watt) device being on for an hour, that’ll be (as you expect) 1 kWh - so a month (1 kwh * 24 hours *7 day *4 weeks) would be about 672 kWh - so £89.21 per month in the East Midlands at 13.262p per kWh.

If it’s a much more sensible 500 w (a reasonable medium to high desktop PC power supply running at 100%,) that’ll be 0.5 kWh per month - 336 kWh - £44.56 per month.

If it’s a 100 w maximum which runs at 50% for 6 hours a day, then it’s a bit more complex:
50% power - 100 / 50 = so 50 watts for 6 hours = 50 *6 hours = 300 watts a day * 7 * 4 = 8400 watts = 8.4 kWh = £1.11 per month

If you can let us know the specifications of the system and your region, we can do the approximate maths for you if you want :wink:

[don’t know the watts, but do now the amps? then watts = volts * amps and volts in the UK is 230v. Remember power supplies will be ‘marked’ at the maximum they can ‘pull’ so a 500w PC power supply can pull a maximum of 500w : but it’ll only do that if it’s full of hard drives, graphics cards and is being used for intensive tasks: otherwise it’ll just use what it needs]

I looked at the brochure again, in tiny letters a kitchen, and a bathroom unit combined will cost £6-7 a year to run based on electric at 15p a unit. Which is the ballpark I’m in.

The product is called the enviro vent cyclone 7 for interest.

The product is called the enviro vent cyclone 7 for interest.

This appears to be no more than an extractor fan?

If you want something to ventilate the house, don’t you ideally need something that does ventilation with heat recovery?

If you do go down the dehumidifier route, for the love of God do not by an Ebac. They’re supposed to be the best but mine is terrible. I used to use a desiccant-based dehumidifier which worked great until the heater failed. I bought a compressor-based Ebac to replace it and it’s nowhere near as good. Like you I keep the house at around 18/19C and it’s just not warm enough for a dehumidifier that relies on condensation onto cooling plates to work efficiently. I’d buy another desiccant-based device but I just can’t face spending even more money after getting the Ebac.

The product is called the enviro vent cyclone 7 for interest.

This appears to be no more than an extractor fan?

If you want something to ventilate the house, don’t you ideally need something that does ventilation with heat recovery?

If you do go down the dehumidifier route, for the love of God do not by an Ebac. They’re supposed to be the best but mine is terrible. I used to use a desiccant-based dehumidifier which worked great until the heater failed. I bought a compressor-based Ebac to replace it and it’s nowhere near as good. Like you I keep the house at around 18/19C and it’s just not warm enough for a dehumidifier that relies on condensation onto cooling plates to work efficiently. I’d buy another desiccant-based device but I just can’t face spending even more money after getting the Ebac.

Right, I hate being this guy not giving the whole story. So here is the other half and a lot of my own questions are answered. They sent me two products. One is called the atmos air, this atmos air also costs £1400 for a full survey and installation. Basically they survey your house, place the new unit it the loft, and run a duct to your landing, this system pulls fresh air from the loft and circulates it through the home. Since the air circulates it helps reduce the amount of stale air in the house, while also aiding cooling in the summer. I just hope it doesn’t let in enough cold air that its like having a window open.

So a whole system should help but its a great cost. I was wondering if anyone had had the system installed. (there being a million bulb customers means there is a high chance maybe a member has a system installed.)

I think the system works by making a positive pressure in the home and thus expelling pollutants.

In other news I was planning on getting some lime render installed so the house breathes more so damp can’t accumulate.

I thought this whole system was an intresting thing to share with other bulb members. Hence the everything but bulb thread.

I just hope it doesn't let in enough cold air that its like having a window open.

This would be my primary concern. I’m afraid I know nothing about these systems so I can’t offer any advice, but I can’t imagine what you’re proposing will work well in the winter without some form heat exchanger to prevent all the expensive heat you’ve put into the house being lost.

In other news I was planning on getting some lime render installed so the house breathes more so damp can't accumulate.
There are a lot of really good (genuinely) breathable interior paints around that are perfect for damp walls. For some reason most of the decorators I've met are keen to use vinyl products 'to keep the damp in'.
I just hope it doesn't let in enough cold air that its like having a window open.

This would be my primary concern. I’m afraid I know nothing about these systems so I can’t offer any advice, but I can’t imagine what you’re proposing will work well in the winter without some form heat exchanger to prevent all the expensive heat you’ve put into the house being lost.

It depends on how and where it draws the air from I suppose.

Because its already recirculating warm air that would otherwise escape out of the house. Its moving air in the house so it doesn’t get stale. I’d like to talk to someone who has the system.

In other news I was planning on getting some lime render installed so the house breathes more so damp can't accumulate.
There are a lot of really good (genuinely) breathable interior paints around that are perfect for damp walls. For some reason most of the decorators I've met are keen to use vinyl products 'to keep the damp in'.

I suppose its more likely to do with how thick it goes on. The breathable stuff will be much thinner and harder to apply. The other stuff will be like wallpaper paste and spray a lot less.

I use a desiccant-based dehumidifier in the kitchen as I dont have extraction to the outside. Hardly comes other than when cooking or wife hangs a washing on the clothes horse. It probably extracts 2 or 3 litres every month or so. I had no real reason to get one other than my wife never opens a window when steaming pots are on the hob.

@FromTheValleys I think it’s because they don’t appreciate that letting the water escape through the walls gives you a less damp house than if you try to try contain it within the wall by sealing it in.

I find that the breathable paints are actually much nicer to apply and cover better than the conventional ones.

Because its already recirculating warm air that would otherwise escape out of the house. Its moving air in the house so it doesn't get stale.

Is it? In that case, that’s not ventilation.

According to this page it’s just a fancy extraction fan. Is that the correct product?

The Cyclone 7 incorporates the latest patented cyclone separation technology. This ensures that all particles, humidity and dust in the air are drawn into the fan and extracted outside the property, without the need for filters that can become clogged. This enables the fan to deliver the maximum of performance to control moisture and humidity using the lowest energy consumption.

The two things I’ve had brochures for are the atmos system and the cyclone 7, the former being the loft based system, the others being an extractor fan. @Hooloovoo

The two things I've had brochures for are the atmos system and the cyclone 7, the former being the loft based system, the others being an extractor fan. @Hooloovoo

Ah, sorry, I obviously missed that and didn’t realise we were talking about two products. I was just going on “the product is called the enviro vent cyclone 7 for interest” and then didn’t read your longer post properly with the different name. Sorry.

Ok, it’s this one.

This is still just a ceiling mounted fan heater with an air filter. No way is it worth £1400. On page 18 of the installation manual it says it uses up to 9 Watts which will cost £10.93 per year to run at 15p per kWh. But there’s a big caveat here. That wattage is with the “comfort heater function” disabled, so in the winter it’ll be blowing freezing cold air from your loft into your home, which doesn’t seem much use. Page 7 says that in the summer above 25C it’ll switch off to avoid blowing hot air into your home, which again doesn’t seem much use. It doesn’t seem to say how much power the comfort heater uses, but safe to say it’ll be a few hundreds of Watts in order to actually do anything.

I wouldn’t waste your money on this.

In other news I was planning on getting some lime render installed so the house breathes more so damp can't accumulate.
There are a lot of really good (genuinely) breathable interior paints around that are perfect for damp walls. For some reason most of the decorators I've met are keen to use vinyl products 'to keep the damp in'.
Also lime plaster internally. Modern gypsum plaster does not let walls breath in the same way that lime does.

If you’ve not currently got render outside, and the bricks themselves are not damaged, don’t render. Whatever render it is, it’s going to breath less well than the wall itself.
Fixing gutters/new pointing tends to be the correct solution.

I dont know of the system but wouldn't a dehumidifier sort the moisture problem.
A house should not need a dehumidifier - I own one and use it sometimes in the basement but it's used to remove moisture that has entered over the last decade due to rotten guttering rather than the basement inherently being damp. If you think you need a dehumidifer, find out where the moisture is coming from and how you can stop/reduce it first.

If you can smash apart your house to install the ducting and can afford it, a ventilation and heat recovery system is the way to go.

Something like the https://www.envirovent.com/products/heat-recovery-ventilation-mvhr/energisava-200/

You can get those for less than £1300 and they’ll actually do something.

If you think you need a dehumidifer, find out where the moisture is coming from and how you can stop/reduce it first.
The answer is my wifes cooking, its like the inside of a steam boiler at meal times, I am sure she is trying to reinvent the steam engine, I dont think she realizes that James Watts old workshop is just 100 yards across the road and has been there and done it. :)
In other news I was planning on getting some lime render installed so the house breathes more so damp can't accumulate.
There are a lot of really good (genuinely) breathable interior paints around that are perfect for damp walls. For some reason most of the decorators I've met are keen to use vinyl products 'to keep the damp in'.
Also lime plaster internally. Modern gypsum plaster does not let walls breath in the same way that lime does.

If you’ve not currently got render outside, and the bricks themselves are not damaged, don’t render. Whatever render it is, it’s going to breath less well than the wall itself.
Fixing gutters/new pointing tends to be the correct solution.

I dont know of the system but wouldn't a dehumidifier sort the moisture problem.
A house should not need a dehumidifier - I own one and use it sometimes in the basement but it's used to remove moisture that has entered over the last decade due to rotten guttering rather than the basement inherently being damp. If you think you need a dehumidifer, find out where the moisture is coming from and how you can stop/reduce it first.

If you can smash apart your house to install the ducting and can afford it, a ventilation and heat recovery system is the way to go.

Something like the https://www.envirovent.com/products/heat-recovery-ventilation-mvhr/energisava-200/

You can get those for less than £1300 and they’ll actually do something.

I have render on the house already. I was replacing it as its very tired.

I have a damp proofer sorting out out a problem in the kitchen, once that’s sorted render and ventilation and a new kitchen.

I have a damp proofer sorting out out a problem in the kitchen, once that's sorted render and ventilation and a new kitchen.
Just make sure that if they make any mention of a failed damp proof course or rising damp, you get rid of them and find someone else who actually knows what they're talking about.

Injection damp proof courses are a complete scam and damp proof courses in almost all situations are not actually required as rising damp (through bricks and mortar) basically doesn’t exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E63vIgV9Oo&feature=youtu.be&t=309