Smart meter installation problems or No problems?

This is a thread where users can inform the community of their installation issues or successes. This requires details for context. Saying that you are only getting gas info on your IHD only tells us that another install has not been a great success but nothing else. A lack of detailed response from Bulb other than move the IHD closer and switch it off and on again does not appear to help much.
So useful information such as
location - north/south, Scotland, Yorkshire, East Anglia, Wales etc.
Equipment installed - Electricity meter - Landis & Gyr E470, EDMI ES-10A, Other
Gas Meter - Landis & Gyr G470, EDMI GS-60A, Other
Comms Hub on E meter - EDMI 420, WNC SKU1, Toshiba SKU1, Other
IHD - IHD3-PPMID, IHD3-CAD-PPMID, Other
Signal strength - bars showing - distances between meters, between IHD and E meter
Is Bulb getting your data via DCC
Did it all work at anytime or not at all
If you had a successful installation or know of one we would also like to hear about that as well.
We are told that such beast exist, but as far as I know we have not had a confirmed case on the community, we only hear the problems.
Hopefully this information may start to show a pattern or some incompatibility issue with particular combinations. It may also allow users to make informed suggestions which may help, who knows.
So please post details to help us be better informed.

Location - West Midlands
Equipment installed - Electricity meter - Landis & Gyr E470
Gas Meter - Landis & Gyr G470
Comms Hub on E meter - WNC SKU1
IHD - IHD3-CAD-PPMID
Signal strength - 4 bars showing. Shows time of day
distances between meters - 1m
between IHD and E meter - 4m. (outside boxes).
Is Bulb getting your data via DCC - Don’t know. Installation date meter readings for the old and new electrity meters appear online but nothing for gas.
Did it all work at anytime or not at all - The IHD has never shown any usage information. I don’t know if the meters are working.
Other - The installer recorded the old electricity reading instead of the old gas reading on the new gas meter.
The Woo Hoo! from bulb seems a bit premature, but I appreciate the irony.

To be fair to the Siemens installer it turns out that he did take and report the correct gas reading to bulb. Therefore noting the wrong old reading on the new meter is inconsequential.

Hi Christos_1, thanks for posting your install info.
First thoughts are that with your strong signal and your IHD showing the correct time suggests your Comms Hub is connected to DCC as the source of accurate time.
If things go as per the norm you may get gas readings in a day or two.
When I started reading the posts on smart meters I thought the problems were some compatibility issue between parts of the installed items but the more posts I read on this subject the less sure I am, time and more install info may help to clarify this. But, reading other post the other possible common compatibility item is Bulb itself.

There is no common area with problems, installations in Scotland, Yorkshire, West midlands and Kent among others are all posting similar problems. As this involves three manufacturers of four possible Comms Hubs and two transmission methods it is unlikely they are all producing the same problems. The IHD has no part in the transfer of data to DCC and as most eventually show gas usage then the IHD and the gas meters are again probably not part of the problem.

That only leaves the Electricity meter ( choice of two) and the common theme of no electricity data, which is surprising as the Electricity meter data is as I understand the system wired to the Comms Hub and not connected by ZigBee (wifi) as is the Gas meter and the IHD.

That was where my musings left me until yesterday when I read this post

Clarycat
March 21, 2019 7:35AM Flag
I just want to add that I’ve moved over from Ovo with fully communicating Smets2 meters/IHD and now only have gas on the IHD. I’ve just moved to the smart tariff so am hoping when that’s sorted everything else will be!

As a normal switch takes three weeks that is at least three weeks of no problems and then no electricity data after move seems too much of a coincidence as it ties in with the main problem with Bulb installations. Which brings me back to my earlier thought that it is within Bulb itself that the problem and the cure will be found.

More installation info will help and maybe the elusive successful install may cheer us all up.

Location - Buckinghamshire
Equipment installed - Electricity meter - Landis & Gyr E470
Gas Meter - Landis & Gyr G470
Comms Hub on E meter - WNC SKU1
IHD - IHD3-CAD-PPMID
Signal strength - 4 bars showing. Shows time of day
distances between meters - 1m
between IHD and E meter - 4m.
Is Bulb getting your data via DCC - Don’t know, but old electricity readings appear on account.
Did it all work at anytime or not at all - The IHD just shows gas usage, but not electricity.

I found this installation on the OVO forum, the thread is well explained with pictures and an rough timeline.
It is very similar to what we are seeing with installations here but without the no electricity reading issue as this one appears to have a successful outcome.
It gives a pretty good guide to how an installation should proceed.

I learnt a lot from that! Surprised to see how limited the actual involvement of the energy supplier is in the process. The installer Siemens, the national meter databases ECOES and Xoserve, the communications service provider Telefonica, the data services provider CGI IT and energy supplier bulb all need to play their part. What could possibly go wrong?

Hi All
location - ,Scotland
Equipment installed - Electricity meter - Landis & Gyr E470, type 5424
Gas Meter - Landis & Gyr G470
Comms Hub on E meter - EDMI 420,
IHD - IHD3–CAD-PPMID, model CA30402 type 1
Signal strength - 3 bars showing (on electricity meter display)
distances between meters 6m, between IHD and E meter -varied from 1 to 10m with no connection obtained at any point
Is Bulb getting your data via DCC - yes E meter only
Did it all work at anytime or not at all: G meter and IHD have never connected No working zigbee (PAN) at any time

Hi All.

Can I start by saying that I like Bulb, they are are a reasonable company to deal with and I have had only a good experience in my dealings with them. So, I dont hold them responsible for the fiasco that is the smart meter roll-out and it has not soured my view of the company. I also have nothing but praise for the Siemens guy who did the install. Sadly I had to leave before he had finished so I only had the message passed through my daughter that the smart functions weren’t working and that it would take another visit to sort this out. No opportunity to get an understanding of why.

Call to Bulb a few days later having seen that the app no longer required me to provide E meter readings but the option for gas was still there. Told that there was a comms problem that was awaiting a fix and engineer would visit when this had been achieved. IHD put in a drawer as it doesn’t pass muster as an ornament.

My presumption at this point was that the zigbee comms were to blame as neither meter was connecting to IHD.

Next monthly statement confirmed that final readings for the old meters had been used and that they had an up-to-date E meter reading.

Next comes an email fom bulb advising that I need a zigbee repeater to get my gas meter connected due to distance (or more likely 2 walls in the way, internal and external) and that they hoped that this would be available BY THE END OF THE YEAR!!!

Call to customer services - couldn’t get through, so thought that I would try online chat service.

Coversation with George (who says he’s a real guy and not a chatbot - sorry George).

After asking about distance between meters he enquired about the meter’s height above ground (50cm BTW)

Upshot - needs a visit from a guy with a tool (a repeater? - strange way to describe it). to make the G meter smart. No timescale.

After a rather “disatisfying” response regarding the IHD which clearly doesn’t have a distance issue - I can carry it to within a metre of the E meter - I was advised that this can be switched on remotely and that he had actioned a request for this to be done.

So, thats the history.

My questions to bulb and the clever folk on this community (given that I’m a techie and understand all the networking stuff) are:

what is the reasonable range limitation between the L&G 470 meters (given that there may be a couple of walls between)?
is this configuration 868Mhz to the DCC (WAN) and 2.4Ghz across the PAN?
is there a generic zigbee issue in play?
what’s with the meter height question?
why wasn’t my IHD switched on at installation?
what is the role of WiFi on the IHD - appears unused even although I have connected to my router?

The instructions and info supplied with the IHD were a bit Noddy. Bulb, there are folk who understand all of this stuff out there too - please be as sharing as you can and help us to understand the issues that are preventing us from getting a working system.

Will update if my IHD “switch-on” succeeds.

Cheers All.

Graham

Hi Graham61
Nice to see someone with a working E meter, pity about everything else. Hopefully BULB can kickstart your IHD.
The repeater is new, I have not heard about that as a solution to G meter range.
At the moment the HAN ZigBee network is all 2.4Ghz with in your case in Scotland a 420Mhz radio link providing the WAN connection to the DCC. As I understood it the solution to an out of range gas meter was to replace the EDMI 420 Comms unit with a dual band HAN version both 2.4Ghz and 868Mhz to extend the HAN ZigBee range past the 10m (ideal conditions) limit of 2.4Ghz.
This issue has been known about since 2017 and still no solution until the end of the year.
BULB have been a bit overwhelmed by the problems but are slowly getting the sorting out the issues at their end. At least you have a working WAN connection, a lot of signal connection problems with the 420Mhz radio network in the north of the country.

Hi Somerpark.

Thanks for the speedy response. Here is the exact text from the email relating to the gas meter solution:

"In the future, we’ll be able to use signal extenders to boost the signal between your gas meter and your electricity meter, which will make your gas meter smart.

We’ll be in touch as soon as they become available, but this could be towards the end of the year."

To be honest this sounds like a faff, and not even sure it willl work with my installation, but if they have proposed a new comms hub with dual band zigbee this would be a more elegant solution allowing my IHD to connect via 2.4Mhz and presume the meters must already be dual band and capable of working at 868Mhz.

So the EDMI 420 name reflects the WAN radio frequency. I was sure the Siemens guy told me it was 868MHz. This should have a pretty good range down at this frequency and seems to work here.

Cheers.

Graham

So the EDMI 420 name reflects the WAN radio frequency. I was sure the Siemens guy told me it was 868MHz. This should have a pretty good range down at this frequency and seems to work here.
868MHz is the long range Zigbee frequency to be used alongside 2.4GHz for connection between smart meters and other HAN devices. Currently only 2.4GHz is being used with 868MHz coming later to resolve some of the signal issues people are having between devices.

Hi Somerpark,
We live in Wales on the eastern border between Wrexham to the north and Oswestry in the south. Siemens engineer installed equipment on 17 June. We expected a 48 hr delay which had been indicated in the pre-installation reminder emails. By Saturday we decided that there was a problem. We had used the IHD WiFi option and connected it to our domestic hub supplied by TalkTalk. However, there was no signal displayed in the first icon position shown in the manual/booklet provided by Siemens with the IHD. After further reviewing of the options I found an Engineering option and clicked OK when up popped the fan-like icon and text saying “attempting to join network”. After several minutes this finishes with no result.

I have tried emails, chat and telephone with Bulb without any result. The staff on the helpline are very well trained in person skills, but there is no indication when the problem will be resolved
Technical details:
Gas Landis + Gyr G470
Elec Landis + Gyr E470
Comms Hub SKU1 Cellular
IHD3-CAD-PPMID
Distances between meters 4 metres
IHD and Comms Hub 3 metres

gofmawr

Hi gofmawr

Were Bulb support able to tell you if they were receiving reading from your meters. With nothing on your IHD there is only the LEDs on the Comms Hub to indicate if anything is actually connected to DCC. The five LEDs are supposed to blink in slow on/off ratio of 1/50 if all is well and solid on, rapid blink and fast blink for various fault conditions. Though I have read on another forum of all LEDs reporting normal when the Gas meter was not on the HAN, so nothing is certain.

The WiFi option is for future use and is not supported or used by any supplier as far as I know, so will do nothing.

The IHD problems Bulb are having, Gas only, waiting for data or nothing at all seem to be largely a Bulb problem. While there are reports of IHD issues with other suppliers, these are mainly wildly incorrect pricing data. Their attempts to kickstart IHD units has worked for some but not others. I think support cant tell you when it will be sorted because they do not know. They are supposedly waiting on a permanent fix from the manufacturers.

The other main problem appears to be that even when they are receiving data from meters via the DCC they are having major difficulties integrating this data into their billing system and many are only learning this a month or two down the road when they get an estimated statement or are asked for meter readings. This is a system problem and they are recruiting new staff to deal with the issue but that will also take time.

I am sorry to say I think these problems will drag on for some weeks yet.

Installation date - 08/08/2019
Location - West Midlands
Equipment installed - Electricity meter - Landis & Gyr E470 Type 5424
Gas Meter - None
Comms Hub on E meter - Toshiba SKU1
IHD - IHD6-CAD-PPMID1.0 CAD 1.6
Signal strength - Sometimes showing 5 bars but sometimes 1 bar without changing position.
Between IHD and E meter - less than 3m.
Is Bulb getting your data via DCC - Don’t know.
Did it all work at anytime or not at all - The IHD has never shown any usage information. I don’t know if the meters are working.
Untill now was on Bulb Vary-Fair Eco7, hopefully it will continue :confused:

Does anyone know how to use A & B butons on L7G Type5424 E470?


Installation date - 23/08/2019
Location - North East
Equipment installed - Electricity meter - Landis & Gyr E470 Type 5424
Gas Meter - None
Comms Hub on E meter - EDMI STANDARD 420
IHD - IHD6-CAD-PPMID 1.1 CAD 1.7
Signal strength - Varies from 1 to 4 seems to be irrespective of being moved. Mostly 1 however this is even if I place the IHD directly on top of the hub inside the meter cabinet. I’ve reset the IHD a number of times. It’s also connected to my WiFi so should update firmware if necessary.
Between IHD and E meter - normally 3m.
Is Bulb getting your data via DCC - Don’t know yet.
Did it all work at anytime or not at all - The IHD intermittently shows usage data but this is rare. On the rare occasions it shows data the signal strength can be only 1 bar. It is usually showing “Electricity data unavailable” or “Connection lost”.
Prior to changeover I was on Bulb Vary-Fair Eco7. The Meter now shows I’m on a single tariff of the higher daytime tariff of 15p. I’m fine to go with a single tariff but hope Bulb will change my tariff to the cheaper single rate.

UPDATE 28/8/19. For no apparent reason the IHD now seems to be working fine.

Location: Hampshire
I’m on a dual rate tariff, code on the bill is 805.

Meter installation date: 06 August 2019
Electricity meter: Landis+Gyr E470 Type 5424
Gas meter: Landis+Gyr G470 672 SMETS2
Comms hub: Toshiba SKU1 Cellular
IHD: Chameleon IHD6-CAD-PPMID
Software: IHD6-CAD-PPMID 1.0 CAD 1.6
Signal strength: 4 bars
IHD is also connected to home WiFi, and it shows the correct time.
Gas meter is around 5 meters from the electricity meter, through a brick cavity wall. IHD is 3 meters from electricity meter.

Comms hub LEDs labelled SW, WAN, HAN are flashing slowly. The ones labelled MESH and GAS are not flashing.

Is Bulb getting data? Not sure, looks unlikely. I’ve spoken to them and agreed they could read the meter daily, but the Dashboard energy usage page says “We don’t have enough data to draw a graph yet”. I can see my last customer readings from the old meters (two electricity readings and one gas), then on the installation date (which was three weeks ago), there are three “customer” readings - two are clearly final readings from the old dual rate meter, the next is a zero “customer” reading for electricity followed by a “smart” reading the same day of “1”. The following day there are two “smart” electricity readings of “16” and “0”. And nothing since then. There are no “smart” readings for gas at all, nor is there a final reading from the old gas meter that I can see.

I’ve been through the website process to restart the IHD several times, with no discernible results. The IHD shows only a single electricity rate, with all consumption allocated to it, and there’s no gas information at all - never has been. The Siemens engineer who installed the equipment said there was a problem with commissioning the gas side, but indicated that it would sort itself out within a few days. Fat chance.

Meter reading on the IHD continues to show just one number for electricity, presumably this is the total consumption. Tariff info in IHD reflects the dual rate daytime price.

The whole reason I’m on dual rate is that I have solar PV and I charge an electric car overnight, so normally my usage has been around 60% night and 40% day. If I’m going to be billed for it all at the day rate I’ll be rather cross.

I really wish I hadn’t agreed to have this stupid meter installed.

Hi Mark,
I have a similar experience to you (though my IHD does work fine for both elec and gas, 90% of the time).

Very similar sequence of events in my online meter reading and graph, but then since yesterday my daily readings have been displayed (in the graph, not in the list of readings), so my readings must be getting back to bulb:

location - London
Equipment installed - Electricity meter - Landis & Gyr E470,
Gas Meter - Landis & Gyr G470, EDMI GS-60A,
Comms Hub on E meter - Toshiba SKU1
IHD - IIHD3-CAD-PPMID
Signal strength - all bars - about 3 metres IHD to meters
Is Bulb getting your data via DCC: Yes
Did it all work at anytime or not at all: IDH works 90% of the time, sometimes loses signal for 10 minutes or so, and then reconnects.

Are Bulb getting readings? Don’t know, but I now have a daily usage graph updating on my Bulb My Account page which seems to reflect my actual usage, so I think they are.

Thanks for the response Dan. As of today, the website dashboard usage page now shows a couple of bars on a chart of electricity usage but as in your case the list of readings doesn’t include the ones shown on the chart. The chart just has a single number for each day, a monetary value, not kWh of energy used. So I still can’t tell whether Bulb are honouring my dual rate tariff. And there’s still no gas info, instead I get a message telling me I will need to manually read the gas meter.
This is not what I signed up for. I want my old meters back!

Location: Bradford
Gas Meter: G470
Electric Meter: E470
Installed 13th March '19

Never worked. Comms hub was down on day of install so it couldn’t be connected to it. Don’t even have the portable unit. Was told an installer would be back within a few days, this has now changed to …??? Still have to take manual readings. Complete waste of time from my point of view. ‘Coincidentally’ our gas & electric usage seems to have increased quite significantly ever since installation, with bulb declaring on each reading submission ‘ooh that’s more than we expected, let’s increase your monthly payments’.

One minor step forward for me. Now daily smart meter readings are appearing on my “Readings” page for gas. Not yet for electricity.

For the last week the IHD has worked perfectly.